Reit ETF - Accumulating - Bogleheads.org (2024)

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Nuno
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:14 am

Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Nuno »

Hello,

I am European Investor, looking to replace the current ETF I have on my portfolio.
Currently I have 'db x-trackers FTSE EPRA/NAR Dev Eur RE UCITS ETF', which replicates the Index:
EPRA/NAREIT Developed Europe.

I don't have any particular reason to invest on 'Developed Europe'. The same way I hold a World Stocks ETF, I must hold a Global Reit ETF. Something replicating index FTSE EPRA/NAREIT Global.

So, the question is, where can I find a accumulating (non distributing) Global REIT ETF?

Thanks for all your help.

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mhalley
Posts: 10423
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:02 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby mhalley »

I don't know about Europe, but in the us reits must distribute 90% of dividends. So I don't know whether an "accumulating" reit exists. .FromInvestopedia:
"REITs are required by law to maintain dividend payout ratios of at least 90%, making them a favorite for income-seeking investors. REITs can deduct these dividends and avoid most or all tax liabilities, though investors still pay income tax on the payouts they receive."

Read more: Real Estate Investment Trust - REIT Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rei ... z4VYtKSL1J
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

From reit.com

The majority of REIT laws around the world mirror the U.S. approach to REIT-based real estate investment.

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Topic Author

Nuno
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:14 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Nuno »

Thank you mhalley.

In your opinion, makes any sense to invest on a restricted ETF, like 'Developed Europe' (the only accumulating ETF I found)?
Since is not possible to find a global Accumulating REIT, shouldn't be better to alocate the REIT money on another asset?

Thanks

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mhalley
Posts: 10423
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:02 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby mhalley »

Sorry I do not know the answer. Bogleheads that slice and dice often use reits as the first expansion out of the three fund portfolio, but no one knows if that will be a good idea going forward.

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Valuethinker
Posts: 48934
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Valuethinker »

mhalley wrote:I don't know about Europe, but in the us reits must distribute 90% of dividends. So I don't know whether an "accumulating" reit exists. .FromInvestopedia:
"REITs are required by law to maintain dividend payout ratios of at least 90%, making them a favorite for income-seeking investors. REITs can deduct these dividends and avoid most or all tax liabilities, though investors still pay income tax on the payouts they receive."

Read more: Real Estate Investment Trust - REIT Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rei ... z4VYtKSL1J
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

From reit.com

The majority of REIT laws around the world mirror the U.S. approach to REIT-based real estate investment.

It's a European funds issue.

The underlying REITs are still meeting the law *in countries that have REITs* (not all do).

The fund itself (next level up) is either Distributing (pays out all income from investments) or Accumulating (does not).

THe issue arises because European investors, depending on country, only pay capital gains when they sell the units, they are not flowed through to the holders' taxes every year when the fund realizes investments.

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Valuethinker
Posts: 48934
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Valuethinker »

Nuno wrote:Hello,

I am European Investor, looking to replace the current ETF I have on my portfolio.
Currently I have 'db x-trackers FTSE EPRA/NAR Dev Eur RE UCITS ETF', which replicates the Index:
EPRA/NAREIT Developed Europe.

I don't have any particular reason to invest on 'Developed Europe'. The same way I hold a World Stocks ETF, I must hold a Global Reit ETF. Something replicating index FTSE EPRA/NAREIT Global.

So, the question is, where can I find a accumulating (non distributing) Global REIT ETF?

Thanks for all your help.

There are various lists eg of Dublin listed ETFs out there.

Check Ishares. They don't have a global Real Estate ETF?

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Topic Author

Nuno
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:14 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Nuno »

Hello,

There are a couple of Global Reit ETFs here in Europe:
SPDR Dow Jones Global Real Estate UCITS ETF
or
Think Global Real Estate UCITS ETF

But none accumulating.

I have 3 options:

1) Invest on non-global Reit ETF: db x-trackers FTSE EPRA/NAR Dev Eur RE UCITS ETF :
Pro: Accumulating ETF
Con: Non Global, limited to developed Europe
2) Invest on global Reit ETF
Pro: Global ETF
Con: Distributing dividends, less tax efficient
3) Allocate the money to a different asset
Pro: Follow the rules: tax efficiency and avoid niche ETFs (European Reit is a niche to me)
Con: Lose the diversification REIT investment can give.

Not sure, what option to take....

Any suggestion?

Thanks

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kotrfa
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:59 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby kotrfa »

Hey. I just stumbled upon this very same issue - no accumulating global REITs (e.g. iShares has none). Did you find any "solution"?

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finvestor
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby finvestor »

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finvestor
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby finvestor »

Actually, I would be interested in hearing opinions on the ETF I linked in the previous post. Any thoughts on it?

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imperia
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:31 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby imperia »

TER is 0.64% which is high.

Why not https://www.ishares.com/uk/individual/e ... s-etf-fund
Same ETF, Acc but not hedget. TER is 0.59% but that is too high for me.

There is Amundi Global REIT ETF Acc, but it is Luxembourg domicile.
https://www.justetf.com/uk/etf-profile. ... 1437018838
TER is just 0.24%

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finvestor
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby finvestor »

Good point on the cheaper non-hedged variant of the iShares ETF.

Besides TER and domicile, the main difference between the iShares ans Amundi offerings seems to be that the iShares ETF invests only in REITs with high enough dividend yield, whereas the Amundi one does not seem to apply any screens like that. Is anyone aware of how these two approaches have performed in the past, i.e., is there evidence supporting the idea that high yield REITs would be a better/worse investment than those with a lower yield?

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Reit ETF - Accumulating - Bogleheads.org (2024)

FAQs

Is accumulating ETF better than distributing? ›

Accumulating funds have a higher return

The higher returns of accumulating funds are clearly visible in the animation below. It shows the returns over the last 5 years of a distributing and accumulating version of an ETF. The line of the accumulating fund is clearly higher than that of the distributing fund.

What is the 90% rule for REITs? ›

By law, REITs must distribute at least 90% of their taxable income to shareholders. This means most dividends investors receive are taxed as ordinary income at their marginal tax rates rather than lower qualified dividend rates. Any profit is subject to capital gains tax when investors sell REIT shares.

Why are there no accumulating ETFs in the US? ›

A fund that chooses not to distribute the dividends and capital gains to the shareholders will necessarily report a lower return, which will make it less attractive to investors. Thus, as a general rule, US mutual funds and ETFs tend to distribute capital gains and dividends instead of accumulating them.

Do accumulating ETFs pay dividends? ›

An accumulating ETF directly reinvests the dividends into the fund for you. This means that the value of an accumulating ETF will increase faster than its distributing counterpart. So even though you don't get a dividend payout in cash, you still benefit from the dividends.

Do you pay tax on accumulating ETFs? ›

You owe the same amount of tax on income regardless of whether you choose the distributing or accumulating route.

Does Vanguard have accumulating ETF? ›

The Vanguard S&P 500 UCITS ETF (USD) Accumulating is a very large ETF with 10,482m GBP assets under management.

What is the REIT 10 year rule? ›

For Group REITs, the consequences of leaving early apply when the principal company of the group gives notice for the group as a whole to leave the regime within ten years of joining or where an exiting company has been a member of the Group REIT for less than ten years.

What is the 5 and 50 rule for REITs? ›

A REIT cannot be closely held. A REIT will be closely held if more than 50 percent of the value of its outstanding stock is owned directly or indirectly by or for five or fewer individuals at any point during the last half of the taxable year, (this is commonly referred to as the 5/50 test).

What is considered bad income for a REIT? ›

If the amount the REIT receives as rent depends on the net profits of a tenant or subtenant, or if the REIT receives interest income that depends on the net profits of the borrower (in both cases, gross rents are fine), all such rent or interest, as applicable, can fail to qualify as good income for purposes of the ...

Does Warren Buffett hold ETFs? ›

Warren Buffett's Berkshire Owns 2 ETFs: SPY and VOO

Regardless of what Berkshire buys or sells, one of the cheapest ways for an investor to diversify is with an exchange-traded fund. If you want to buy what Buffett has at Berkshire, he has two ETFs listed on the 13F: SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust SPY. Vanguard S&P 500 ETF VOO.

How to tell if an ETF is accumulating? ›

Look for the asset type beneath the "Above" section of that specific ETF, where you will find a specific tag indicating whether the ETF is accumulating or distributing. The tag "Accumulating" appears for accumulating ETFs, while the tag "Distributing" appears for distributing ETFs.

Is iShares better than Vanguard? ›

The Vanguard fund has a lower price-to-earnings ratio, at 17.4 times, compared with 18.3 for iShares. This is due to the lower weighting to the highly rated US market. Fees are comparable, with iShares costing 0.2% and Vanguard costing 0.22%.

Should I buy accumulating or distributing ETFs? ›

Choosing whether to invest in accumulating or distributing ETFs should be in line with your investment plan. For example, if you want your investments to grow over time without actively managing them, you may choose an accumulating ETF, whereas if you want steady passive income, you may choose a distributing ETF.

When to cash out an ETF? ›

ETFs offer guaranteed liquidity – you don't have to wait for a buyer or a seller. This means your ETF should sell on the day you ask to sell it as long as the stock exchange is open and your instruction is received in time.

Is VT distributing or accumulating? ›

VT ist distributing. In Switzerland, there is no advantage between accumulating and distributing, in both cases you have to pay taxes on dividends only (no capital gain taxes). Switzerland is an exception with this in taxlaw landscape. Most often, capital gains (both dividends an value appreciation) are taxed together.

Do I pay tax on accumulation funds? ›

Income you receive from income units is taxed as either dividend or interest income, depending on what sort of assets are held within the fund. Income reinvested in accumulation units is known as a 'notional distribution', and is taxable in exactly the same way as the income from income units.

Are accumulation funds better? ›

Which are better: accumulation or income funds? One type of fund isn't better than another. In fact, assuming an investor in an income (distributing) fund reinvests their dividends, the performance of an accumulating and distributing fund will be nearly identical.

Is the S&P 500 accumulation or distribution? ›

Vanguard S&P 500 UCITS ETF (VUAG).

This is an accumulation ETF, which just means any dividends are automatically reinvested and rolled back into the fund.

Why do ETFs distribute less capital gains? ›

For the most part, ETF managers are able to manage the secondary market transactions in a manner that minimizes the chances of an in-fund capital gains event. It's rare for an index-based ETF to pay out a capital gain; when it does occur it's usually due to some special unforeseen circ*mstance.

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